I would like to add that the name of mountain /(soft S)L(nasal E)(hard Z)A/, which is mentioned above, comes probably from the name of dense fog which is characteristic
for Silesia, also nowadays. The mountain was a place of solar cult in prehistoric times,
special ceremonies took place there during the shortest day in the year.
A number of interesting prehistoric sculptures (mainly animals) is preserved and can be seen in its slopes. Now Sleza is very popular destinations for tourists from Wroclaw, especially during weekends. Kazik.
For how long before WWII was Silesia in Germany? Was it, earlier, part of the kingdom of Poland and, ever, part of the Holy ROman Empire? --rmhermen
The Prussian conquest of Silesia from Austria was the crux of the War of the Austrian Succession in the 1740s. Prussia eventually turned into Germany, of course. --
Paul Drye
A very good website ;
http://www.sags.org/history.htm gives a pretty good overview of Silesian history.
To that history add :
1. In 895 the Bohemia / Moravia (including Silesia at that time) princes came to Regensburg of Frankish and Holy Roman Empire and pledged allegiance to German emperor Arnulf of Carinthia .
2. 622-662 first Slavs in Europe are the Moravians under Frankish ruler Samo.
3. Mieszko I was first duke of a Poland seperat from Czech (formerly Czech and Lech)Mieszko I and son Boleslaw I Chrobry (as well as later Polish rulers pledged allegiance to emperor in turn for receiving land on loan (landlien) to rule over.
4.The Polish Piast rulers died out in 1370. (Imperial law, when a ruling house dies out , the land reverts back to the empire.
5. In circa 1537 Brandenburg Hohenzollernrulers made an agreement with the Silesian German Piasts, that Brandenburg would inherit Silesia rule. Emperor did not permit it, because the emperor (Maximilian I) had made an agreement in 1515 with Polish and Hungary ruler
.Maximilian adopted Luis of Hungary.
6. Crossen , Or Krossen district (Schwiebus referred to in above website as 1815) including Zuellichau came under Brandenburg rule in 1472.
i checked out the site -- some of it is pretty useful, but other parts are questionable -- especially the stuff before about 1500. good overview, though. I found it interesting to note that Silesia seems to have been Polish in the Middle Ages...
JHK
- Silesia derived its name from the Silinger, a Germanic tribe like the Vandals and the (Celtic) Germanic Lugier or Lygier who all lived south of the Baltic Sea in the Elbe?, Oder, and Vistula river area. It should be noted that there is considerable debate among archaeologists and historians as to whether there is such a thing as a Celtic-Germanic people. Exhibits such as the one in Rosenheim (Bayern) certainly demonstrate that the Celts had an influence on the area; however, the movement of the Celts westward through Europe was such that there is little if any overlap between them and the Germanic tribes.
Are you sure about etymology of name Silesia ?
It seems too similar to its Polish name Śl&aogonek;sk which is of clearly different etymology (from Mount Śl&eogonek'&zdotabove;a)
There are many other geographical Polish names that were latinized with ending -ia, and there was either a short vocative e/i vowel (vocal yer) between first two consonants or second consonant was a vocal l, which sounds like el/il, so s(short i)l(something that sounds like on)sk(short e)/s(short i)l(something that sounds like nasal e)(hard vocative z)- -> silesia seems very likely.
Sorry, but your etymology sounds like some German propaganda. --Taw
- Hi Taw -- could you please write out the Polish again in a pronounceable way, so that the rest of us can follow the argument? I reserve judgement on the whole thing, although it does make sense that we have a Latin name after early inhabitants, whatever their ethnicity...JHK
One of pre-1000 year Slav tribes of Silesia is called /(soft S)L(nasal E)(hard Z)A(soft N)E/, where /-A(soft N)E/ is usual Polish suffix to describe tribes (other Polish-territory tribes were called Polanie, Wis'lanie, Mazowszanie etc.). They were called from mountain that is nowadays called /(soft S)L(nasal E)(hard Z)A/. Later whole Silesia were called /(soft S)L(nasal O)SK/ (but this name has many other changes, like 'Polish umlaut' E->O, lost final yer, and quite complex consonants change (hard Z)<->SK). Anyway because it's accepted without doubt that Polish name of Silesia comes from this tribe, and because name of this tribe changed less, I'll use this name for explanations.
Generally there is no such consonant pair in old Polish as /(soft S)L/. But in Polish 'short soft e/i' and 'short hard e/i' (these two letters exist in Russian spelling as soft yer and hard yer, but they aren't pronounced) become silent in most positions. So it was probably /S(short soft e/i)L(nasal E)(hard Z)-/.
Usual way of latinization at that times were taking local name (which was only spoken, national languages weren't written at that time),
write in to be pronounciable in Latin, and append grammatically-correct suffix. This suffix was often '-ia', as in (Mazowsze -> Mazovia, Kalisz -> Kalisia, Warszawa -> Varsovia). Also because Latin had no letter for nasal E and hard Z, they were written as E and S. So natural latinization was 'S?LESIA'.
The last problem is what has happened to short soft e/i. It could be any of E I or nothing. At that time short vowels were pronounced,
so nothig wouldn't be very probabe. I don't know why it became I and not E. That might have been feature of local dialect or something like that.
Anyway 'SILESIA/SELESIA' is clearly Latin encoding of Polish name of this tribe and region.
I've never heard anything about this Silinger tribe. I think that I would if their existence and name were generally accepted, because I live here. --Taw
- Thanks, Taw! Here is my guess as to how Helga came up with the Silinger as the source, based on what I know of name-studies and historiography (which is a good deal more than most people!) -- Silesia is undoubtedly named after the Slezne (correct spelling as needed). German scholars undoubtedly Germanized the Latin name, which is very common. So really, we're talking about the same group. I think (if it isn't already there) that the article should probably refer to the Silesians (what we call the people in English) as Slavs. Does that work for you? Any disagreements?
- Just back from more searching...not as simple as it looks -- Catholic Encyclopedia says the Silingii were a really early Germanic people, and that, after they migrated, the name stuck to the area, becoming Polanized -- so the area has really nothing to do with an inherent Germanness -- the Silesians post-Völkerwanderung were in face Slavs, but the name derives from a place-name for a Germanic people. WIll check more. JHK
________
I would like to add that the name of mountain /(soft S)L(nasal E)(hard Z)A/, which is mentioned above, comes probably from the name of dense fog which is characteristic
for Silesia, also nowadays. The mountain was a place of solar cult in prehistoric times,
special ceremonies took place there during the longest day in the year.
A number of interesting prehistoric sculptures (mainly animals) is preserved and can be seen in its slopes. Now Sleza is very popular destinations for tourists from Wroclaw, especially during weekends. Kazik.
To
Taw. It does not surprise me ,that you have never heard of the Silinger , even though you live in Slask (Silesia) now. Where did your parents, grandparents, greatgrandparents live ?
It was not in the interest of the communists who took over in 1945. It was not in the interest of all the allies who took over Poland and Germany to let the people involved know the true histories.
The Roman empire received its power by having the people and countries fight each other , then taking them all over . Think about that.
On the Silesia page I have added some more history, which (it and or I) will be discredited real soon, I am sure.
H. Jonat
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