Wikipedia: Wikipedia commentary/Wiki is not paper

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Subtitled: Wikipedia Unbound

Wikipedia is an encyclopedia. I share Jimbo Wales's desire that it not become Yet Another discussion forum. But it definitely is something different from a paper encyclopedia, and I think we should think more about how to take advantage of that fact. Perhaps a separate discussion forum would be the appropriate place to do this, but I think doing it here is just as viable and useful. I also don't want it to become yet another big dead collection of facts.

No size limits: The most obvious difference is that there are, in principle, no size limits here. It is quite possible, for example, that when I finish typing in everything I want to say about Poker, there might well be over 100 pages, and enough text for a full-length book by itself. This would certainly never be tolerated in a paper encyclopedia, which is why Britannica has such limited information on the topic (and on most other topics). But I see no reason at all why Wiki shouldn't grow into something beyond what could ever possibly be put on paper. The Nupedia FAQ rightly warns about taxing a reader's patience with rambling prose, and I agree, but I'm talking about things like detailed subtopics and sub-subtopics. Why shouldn't there be a page for every Simpsons character, and even a table listing every episode, all neatly crosslinked and introduced by a shorter central page like the above? Why shouldn't every episode name in the list link to a separate page for each of those episodes, with links to reviews and trivia? Why shouldn't each of the 100+ poker games I describe have its own page with rules, strategy, and opinions? Hard disks are cheap.

I agree with this one completely. --Jimbo Wales

This might make it very difficult to use the search function of Wikipedia, because any simple search would return a vast number of results. If there were a way to meta-tag articles with keywords, this would help, but there is currently no way to do that. - TimShell

A solution I see is to break thing down into more than one article. Have nested articles. For example, break "Poker" up into a couple of different articles like "Basic Rules", "History of Poker", "Variations of the Game". These will be much more search-able. The only problem would be splitting an article into smaller ones once it gets too big. This might become a difficult task, but very much within reach. -- Fulgore

I have also avoided abbreviations in general, since they seem primarily designed to save paper. I see no reason to use "e.g." when "for example" can be typed just as fast, is clearer, and less likely to be incorrectly rendered as "i.e." by those who can't remember the difference. --LDC

Style differences: Some standards of English prose style don't really apply. For example, CMS (The Chicago Manual of Style) tells us to briefly gloss the first use of an abbreviation, as I just did with "CMS". Also, jargon terms can be treated similarly. This makes a lot of sense--if you mention something, the reader may want to know more about that thing, and giving a full name will make it easier for him to look it up. But we have something even better--a direct link to the thing, not just a full name. This is even better for glossing jargon, because many terms are simply not explained at all by a quick gloss, but a link would do wonders. I think this: ...code page 437 was based on the DEC VT-220 terminal?... is easier to read and far superior to: ...code page 437 was based on the DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) VT-220 terminal (a computer input/output device).

I agree with this one, too. I will say that we ought to have style standards, of course, but that these will evolve to suit our needs and abilities here in the wiki. And of course, the open nature of the software means that enforcement only comes to the extent that we authors care to enforce it. --Jimbo Wales

I'd also like to comment here that while the current Wikipedia software makes graphics a little trickier to do here than on paper, there are a few things that are actually easier: (1) color, for example, is trivial on the Web and almost everyone can access it (at least a few basic colors). This is very expensive for paper, and so color doesn't get used much in text. (2) Animation is impossible on paper. We can do it here, but we should establish maximum-interoperability standards early on. (3) Interactivity (same issues as animation).

Ease of editing: There should be less need of weasel words like "at the time of this writing", "generally recognized as", "commonly believed that", etc. Just say it the way you think it is, and if you're proven wrong, come back and edit it later. If there are disagreements, then put up a page about each disagreement (see below).

I only partially agree with this one. The reason is that when I write on some controversial current topics like Napster, I know that it might be awhile until I come back and edit it. Others could edit it, of course, but I can't be sure when they will. So it is best to write in a timeless fashion, because it is likely that many pages will grow gracefully old. --Jimbo Wales

Timeliness: The pages of an encyclopedia are all compiled and printed at roughly the same time, and old sets are generally replaced by new whole sets. Wikipedia pages cannot assume that the reader will have any clue to the historical context in which the article is written, or the state of any article to which it refers. It is quite likely that some Wikipedia page will refer to "the most common/popular X...", then point to a page with an entirely different "most common/popular X...", each of which was correct when written. We must be careful, then, to imagine how our article might appear to someone reading it at some other time, some other place, and without the support of articles to which we refer. This is a rare instance, I think, of something that's actually more difficult in a Wiki than on paper. Perhaps the software could be modified to improve the visibility of the date an article was written (and each of its edits)?

This is a very interesting and valid point. It can be o.k. to have a page with the top grossing movies, but that page should (as it does) explain when and how it was constructed, and it should invite updates. I have been keeping a list of recent celebrity deaths that will obviously need to be refactored once those deaths aren't recent anymore.

Another interesting take on the issue of timeliness is that we can very quickly have a page on any hot topic that people may suddenly find interesting. Perhaps I should write a page about the high school where the shootings took place today. Or, if something big happens in the news, let's say, in East Timor, then we rush there.''

--Jimbo Wales

Why not indeed supply basic background information (of the sort you find in an encyclopedia) about current events, as a sort of news magazine. Often, the background info is much more important than the current events. If entries like this could be distributed automatically via a mailing list, it could end up being a very useful resource. Just a thought. --Larry Sanger

If someone has the time, it might be an interesting experiment to set up a 'headlines' page, that lists recent quality additions to the wikipedia (gleaned from New topics, perhaps?) in sort of a Slashdot like fashion (including a short promotional summary and a link to the topic's /Talk page). -- BryceHarrington Well, there's something similar--see brilliant prose. I was hoping that everyone would feel free to add to it. It's hard to maintain it just by myself. --LMS

Would simply adding a date created and date edited to the pages (manually, by the person creating or editing the page) not help future readers have this sense of context?

Collaborative authorship: A Wikipedia article need not have a "author", in the sense of some person or group who created all the text and who is responsible for it. I think it is good that most authors don't identify themselves, and I think it is good for the project that all authors feel free to edit, re-arrange, and build on others' work. I think perhaps that some might actually not feel free enough, and should do more. While we cannot use copyrighted work from non-free sources, and we cannot modify work from otherwise-free sources that forbid derivative work, we can (and I think should) use, modify, edit, and rework free texts (in particular other Wikipedia pages, public domain sources, and other open content) when doing so will result in a better final product. Some otherwise-free sources will want credit, so we should have a method for noting collaborative credit on a page when necessary. For instance, "This page is based on <link to free source> and work by various unknown authors."

Opinions: Encyclopedias (rightly, I think) try to avoid controversial opinions. I think a headlining article on a topic should be as factual as possible, but I also think it should link to opinions: Maybe we could have a standard "/Opinions?" subpage (which differs from "/Talk" in being a list of pointers to finished essays rather than an active discussion). Each page describing a poker game, for example, could have a /Talk subpage where people describe their experiences with the game, and an /Opinions? subpage pointing to longer essays where various people express detailed opinions about the game or how they would improve it.

I have a very strong disagreement with this one. Wikipedia IS an encyclopedia. The wikipedia should write neutrally about opinions, but the wikipedia should not put forward opinions. There is no need to shy away from controversial opinions -- but there is every reason to shy away from asserting those opinions. --Jimbo Wales

That's sort of what I had in mind, but I may not have been very clear about it. I certainly didn't mean to imply that Wikipedia should never hold a controversial opinion, only that when I look up a subject here, I should find factual essays about that subject, a well as pointers (i.e., links, perhaps with brief descriptions) of relevant opinions on the subject. And maybe the physical storage and mechanism of the Wiki is useful for keeping those essays as well. For some subjects, that's quite possibly all there can be--a summary of the relevant opinions in the field with pointers to them. Certainly they must be prominently labelled as such, maybe even something like differently-colored pages?

For my part, I agree with most of this. -- Larry Sanger

Moved comment to neutral point of view.

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