Wikipedia: Microevolution/Talk

The article says microevolution only believes in "destructive genetic mutations, which happen to confer an advantage to individuals in a specific environment". If it confers an advantage in a specific environment, how is it a destructive mutation? Constructive vs. destructive is purely determined in relation to the environment.

The example seems to me like evidence that beneficial microevolution is possible. The fact that a person can intentionally turn it into a destructive one by altering the environment *away* *from* the microevolution doesn't change the fact that the organism originally adapted in a beneficial way. The organism developed the resistance to penicillin while in its presence -- obviously a beneficial adaptation. --Dmerrill

I think point is that the presence of the antibiotic is a rare event (for the organism), the fact is that in the most common environment, the adaptation to produce penicillinase is not beneficial. It takes resources that could be better focussed on survival. -- BenBaker

: Maybe. Penicillin comes from where? Mold. Is mold common? Yup. I don't know, but I wouldn't be surprised if penicillin-producing mold does constitute a regular environmental stressor for many bacteria, and resistance a useful trait.

: That's doesn't speak to my point. My point is that at the time the adaptation happened, it was beneficial. It later became maladaptive, because the environment changed. That is *exactly* the same phenomenon believed to occur by scientists. So adaptive microevolution is possible, even if that adaptation might subsequently become maladaptive. --Dmerril?

I agree. the adaptation was beneficial. and if the environment change was common, it would be appropriate to call it a beneficial adaptation. I think you are using a different criteria for naming than the one intended. I believe that the naming criteria is to describe the adaptation by its impact in the most common environment. Not in the rare situation in which the adaptation flourished. But truthfully, I didn't come up with the adjective, and encourage you to edit the original document to clarify it. -- BenBaker

I would encourage you, however, to remember the article should be describing microevolution rather than beneficial adaptation.

: I would be happy to, except that I don't understand the concept of microevolution. I can only point out what appear to be inconsistencies in the article. --Dmerrill

The biggest questions I have about this concept is are:

Is macroevolution intended to mean a single big change that happens, or rather a series of microevolutions that when added up result in macroevolution?
Why do the small changes not, over time, add up to a big one?
How many microevolutions do there have to be before it becomes a macroevolution?
Do creationists accept that most microevolutions are going to be harmful, but a few are beneficial?
Do creationists accept that the beneficial microevolutions can replace the original organism (survival of the fittest)?
How, within this theory, is a species defined? As two groups that can not breed?
If so, what about organisms that do not have sexual reproduction (e.g., bacteria)?

Also, the article says macroevolution is a big change in an organism -- do you really mean by that a change in a single generation from one species to another? If so, it's a straw man since scientists don't believe in that either.

I think these issues should be addressed in the article. --Dmerrill

I'd like the concepts of microevolution and macroevolution better related to the debate over evolution. Moreover, I think they are best used as terms that define the debate, rather than concepts in themselves to be disputed.

The theory of evolution, if it is indeed scientifically sound (and almost no one here doubts that), should be able to stand on its own merits without you all feeling you must defend it at every point.

The various articles which present alternatives to evolution, however outlandish or zany they seem to you scienntists, require merely a link or two each to the accepted science.

-- Ed Poor

: I didn't intend to dispute them, although I might somewhere other than Wikipedia. I only presented questions that came up naturally while reading the article. Any article on a theory should include common criticisms and the theory's answer or refutation or explanation.

I agree that a discussion of how these concepts relate to evolutionary theory would be a good thing. But as I said before, I don't know this theory, so I can only ask questions, which imho is an important way to make an article better. --Dmerrill