What's a 'bogan'? --
MichaelTinkler
An austalian derogatory term roughly equivalent to the american term "redneck" - MMGB
Manning, obviously you disagree with the use of the term bogan? to describe Cold Chisel's fans, perhaps to the term in general. While I'm happy to concede that perhaps it should not be used in this article, I feel that some mention of their outer-suburban male fan base should be made. Do you agree that this is an accurate description of the majority of their strongest fans, and if so, how best to explain this? --Robert Merkel
- oh I like that! 'outer suburban male'!
- Michael, if you're not Australian, perhaps an explanation of "outer suburban" is in order. Unlike the US, Australia's six capital cities are largely contiguous entities, and once outside their outer limits by American (and even more by European) standards settlement thins out very quickly and to levels which are very sparse. Self-contained American-style suburbs located outside major centres are not that common. Instead, Australian "suburbs" are more akin to neighbourhoods in a continuous, if largely low-density urban sprawl. Within these metropolitan areas a rough division can be drawn into "inner suburban" and "outer suburban". The inner suburbs have small houses, and townhouses, and factories which are continuously either being turned into warehouse apartments or knocked down for new townhouse or apartment blocks. The students and pensioners who used to live in the area are being crowded out by young professionals. Coffee shops and restaurants are booming with the property prices (though Starbucks are thankfully rare). Arthouse cinema, nightclubs, bars with live original bands, good restaurants, recycled clothing shops, and so on, dominate the streetscape. Outside this inner ring are the outer suburbs, with shopping malls (called shopping centres here), larger detached houses, massive "entertainment complexes" filled with slot machines, freeways, multiplexes, and so on. Much of the wealth generated by the economic growth of the past two decades has gone to the inner suburban dwellers, and the cultural divide between the two groups has grown. The political divide caused by this crosses party lines, with the inner-city "elite" collectively supporting free trade, multiculturalism?, reconciliation with Australia's indigenous peoples, the shedding of remaining ties to the British monarchy, and so on, and the outer suburbs and rural areas opposing them. The present Prime Minister, John Howard, has effectively exploited these issues to win votes amongst working-class outer-suburbanites at the expense of alienating many in his own party. I hope some of this rant makes sense, but anyway :)
Looks like a decent article to me. Could stand alone as outer suburban male (a.k.a. bogan), maybe under Melbourne culture ??
- to me, too. So is 'bogan' acronymic, or personal, or a nonsense word? And, by the way, I lived in [Atlanta, Georgia]? for 15 years. Sounds familiar enough to me! --MichaelTinkler
- As far as I know, it's not an acronym, but it's a well-known term (it's used, for instance, in a song called "Nobody Like A Bogan" by a group called Area 7"). It may be local though - I think Sydneysiders call the equivalent "Westies". The point WRT suburbs I was trying to make was that when I visited the US (TX, CA, NY, and NJ) was that "suburbs" seemed to be used in a slightly different sense to here. By the way, I'll try and prepare an entry on bogans and we'll have a rerun of the white trash debate amongst the Aussies :)--Robert Merkel
- The term Bogan is perjorative and should not be used in any Wikipedia article, neither should Kike, Yid, Wop, Wetback or Spic. However I can see the validity of an article about the word itself, as it does have sociological significance, although we are GUARANTEED to get a debate similar to the White Trash episode. Its etymology is uncertain. - MMGB
- Yes, bogan is perjorative (though it is a cultural and social-economic term more akin to "yuppie", "chattering classes" or "chardonnay socialist" than a racial one like the ones you have used above). I already agreed that it probably shouldn't be used in this article. However, I think Chisel's icon status to Australian-born working class males, particularly those born in the 1960's and 1970's, is worth mentioning in an article on Cold Chisel, in the same way that Britney Spears has inspired the "tweenies". If stated in that way, it's not being demeaning to Cold Chisel or their fans, is it? --Robert Merkel
- Oh absolutely, I can see that it's worth making that particular point. MMGB
Oh yes, that's much better. - MMGB
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