Britain and Ireland/Talk

The term "Britain and Ireland" can't possibly include the Isle of Man, which is neither part of Britain nor part of Ireland. Ditto for the Channel Isles. --Zundark, 2001 Nov 16

I agree there is a problem. In 99% of the uses of "British Isles" the term is used to mean "Britain and Ireland", but there are a few cases where it explicitly is used to mean the general collection of islands off North-Western Europe that historically was politically controlled by Britain. I do not know of an alternate succinct expression for that collection of islands that does not give the misleading impression that Ireland is British. Any suggestions. --Eob

The term "Britain and Ireland" is unclear and best avoided in almost any context. If what is meant is the British Isles, then the correct term is "British Isles" (and the British Isles article should make it clear that this doesn't imply Ireland is British). If what is meant is merely the two largest islands of the British Isles, then "Great Britain and Ireland" is better than "Britain and Ireland". If what is meant is the United Kingdom and the Republic of Ireland, then "United Kingdom and the Republic of Ireland" is obviously clearest (although a bit long-winded). --Zundark, 2001 Nov 16

Sorry but if we want to use a NPOV I do not think it is acceptable to use the term "British Isles" except in an historical context. The situation is not simple because political and geographical terminology is mixed, and unfortunately that means that it is hard to come up with a acceptable concise name for the collection of islands off Europe that have historically been controlled by Britain. The use of "British Isles" is similar to the habit of some people to refer to "Britain" as "England", much to the annoyance of the Scots and Welsh.

Referring to Britain as "England" is just wrong, as is claiming that Britain and Ireland includes the Isle of Man. By contrast, the term "British Isles" is the normal term for the islands of Great Britain and Ireland and the smaller islands around them. Since "British Isles" is the term that is used, it's the term we should use - this is an encyclopedia, we're not supposed to make up our own terms. NPOV doesn't come into it, since no point of view is being expressed. --Zundark, 2001 Nov 16