Wikipedia: Nursery rhyme/Talk

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Changed: 13c13

aristotle - my resources said that the eagle doesn't exist, its an urban myth... what are your sources? Mind you, I've got the street address and I'm flying to London tomorrow, so I'll check it out. :)- MB

... - my resources said that the eagle doesn't exist, its an urban myth... what are your sources? Mind you, I've got the street address and I'm flying to London tomorrow, so I'll check it out. :)- MB

Removed: 19,30d18

I have 3 sources:
# I have visited the Eagle a several years backs and read the plaque,
# there is an article about "Pop goes the Weasel" on World Wide Words [1] and
# on someone's notes from a pub crawl the story is confirmed [2] by yet another person who read the plaque.
All internet sources confirm the address and the date of the music hall, which corresponds with the date that this song was first referenced in print in the 1950s with the 2nd version being acknowleged as having come from England, according to the World Wide Words web site I mentioned. Is this sufficient? -- Artistotle

Fine by me - I just that I did look it up fairly thoroughly and found no confirmation, but I'm perfectly happy once we have some references. When there is doubt I think we should err on the side of suspicion as there are so many urban myths floating around on this topic. Oh and by the way, neither of your sources mentions the plaque. - MB

I was not getting snippy, I was just trying to thorough. Not all sites are searchable by general search engines, even Google, and you do need to know the revelant sites (such as World Wide Words) for the subjects you are looking for. Anyway a search for "Pop goes the Weasel" plaque London pub finds the 3rd reference I mentioned in Google.

As for the plaque it could have been stolen since I visited it but the 3rd source knew the detailed history of The Eagle, confirmed by World Wide Words, so I'm fairly sure that he read it off the plaque. -- Aristotle

Removed: 36,43d23

The editor of the World Wide Web, a researcher for OED says this on the page I referenced earlier:

:The first British mention of the phrase pop goes the weasel dates from an advertisement by Boosey and Sons of 1854 which described "the new country dance 'Pop goes the weasel', introduced by her Majesty Queen Victoria" (a puff to be taken with a large pinch of salt, we may assume). It would seem from the dates that the title was taken from the American publication of 1850.

Essentially that what you have quoted the first was the first English account of the song, which appears to be inaccurate although authentic to the time period. The OED quotes the earliest English work in which the word appears and this should not be mistaken for it's exact meaning.

BTW have you looked at N. & Q. (1905) 10th Ser. III. 492, IV. 209?

Removed: 45d24

At this rate I recommend we set up a seperate page for all the information people want to compile about the nursery ryhme "Pop Goes the Weasel", given the interest. There is a lot of information we can put there such as different potential meanings of words, different versions of the lyrics and the address of The Eagle, or The Eagle Tavern, which is 2 Shepherdess Walk, City Road, London. -- Aristotle

And just when is a Wikipedia entry "done"? :-)

: It never is, it's just annoying to be fighting at the same time, particularly when I was trying to get rid of innacurate stuff and replace with accurate info. And sorry Cunctator - if I'd checked and seen it was you I wouldn't have been so self-righteous. -MB

Umm, Cunctator didn't write that. -Someone who isn't Cunctator. :-)

(And, wow, I sure agree that that's annoying. But what can we do about it?)

I heard that Beethoven loved 'twinkle twinkle little star' in his childhood. How old is that song anyway? Can anyone confirm that?

It was written around 1765 by Mozart as a child. "Ah vous je dirais Mamon" was the orignal name (or something similar) The english lyrics are officially "anonymous" according to ASCAP - I just checked it out- MB

... - my resources said that the eagle doesn't exist, its an urban myth... what are your sources? Mind you, I've got the street address and I'm flying to London tomorrow, so I'll check it out. :)- MB

FWIW, when I was a kid back in the 60s, there was a record by Anthony Newley regularly played on a UK childrens radio programme, where this exact Eagle pub/pawnshop theory was expounded.... and that's the only place I've ever heard that explanation (I heard the record hundreds of times back then)

Yeah - I checked dozens of places on the web yesterday and none of them could confirm this story - hence my doubts. Axel - what are your sources?- MB

OK - my apologies for misinterpreting your tone. I'm glad you're understanding about my desire to be thorough. Cheers - MB

OED says this:

pop goes the weasel, name of a country dance very popular in the eighteen-fifties, in which these words were sung or exclaimed by the dancers while one of them darted under the arms of the others to his partner; also the name of the tune; hence as a vb. and in other humorous uses. See N. & Q. (1905) 10th Ser. III. 492, IV. 209.
c1854 (Music-seller's Advt. in Newspaper), The new country dance ‘Pop goes the weasel’, introduced by her Majesty Queen Victoria. Musical Bouquet No. 409, Pop goes the Weasel; La Tempête; and Le Grand Père. These fashionable dances as performed at the Court balls. 1855 in N. & Q. 10th Ser. IV. 211/1 This dance is very popular, it is without deception, ‘Pop goes the weasel’ has been to Court, and met a good reception. 1855 SMEDLEY H. Coverdale xxxiv, Dear old Punch, with his private band pop-going-the-weasel like an harmonious steam-engine.