Any expression with "C" and "C++" both occurring between sequence points (and comparisons are not sequence points) is officially undefined, which means the compiler is free to do anything at all. That's the nature of C, to leave things up to the compiler. Other expressions with "c++" (by itself) have the value of "c", if that value is used. By itself, it is used only for the side-effect. At any rate, the statement is not only inaccurate, it's totally irrelevant smart-ass nonsense that provides no useful information to the reader about the topic here, so by deleting it we're not deleting "content", because the statement has no content. That absolute undeniable facts are these: C programmers often use the expression "c++", by itself, to increment the variable "c". Stoustrup chose to use this common and useful idiom to name his language. Even if you modified the statement to be accurate, obscure details about particular operator behavior should go into some different article that covers such details. --Lee Daniel Crocker |
Any expression with "C" and "C++" both occurring between sequence points (and comparisons are not sequence points) is officially undefined, which means the compiler is free to do anything at all. That's the nature of C, to leave things up to the compiler. Other expressions with "c++" (by itself) have the value of "c", if that value is used. By itself, it is used only for the side-effect. At any rate, the statement is not only inaccurate, it's totally irrelevant smart-ass nonsense that provides no useful information to the reader about the topic here, so by deleting it we're not deleting "content", because the statement has no content. The absolute undeniable facts are these: C programmers often use the expression "c++", by itself, to increment the variable "c". Stoustrup chose to use this common and useful idiom to name his language. Even if you modified the statement to be accurate, obscure details about particular operator behavior should go into some different article that covers such details. --Lee Daniel Crocker |
As it is currently written (some say ++c would have been better...) it is now more accurate and I think better fitting. I suppose a bit of culture isn't out of place, so my earlier "irrelevant" comment is retracted. --LDC |
For example: stating that "C++ is a C expression that stands for postorder incrementation of the variable C" is a great definition of C syntax. Yet it does almost nothing to explain why there is a language called C++ and how that relates to a language called C.
This is not addressed to anyone in particular, but to the inevitable next person to update this page so please don't take offense.
Finally, I changed it by adding a quote from stroustrup, and an explicit statement that yes it is a play of "words". Perhaps "from the horse's mouth" will do.
BTW, wouldn't C++ == C since its not incremented yet?
Amen! Thank you for stating so eloquently what I was trying to say... --Alan D
In other words, it was deleted because good editing requires it. Not everything is purely about content here. Lets suppose that the statement (C++==C) _was_ true. We still would not include this information because it is not relevant to the topic on hand. No one mentioned comparison, so any comments on order of evaluation in comparisons should be relegated to somewhere else. This is called GOOD WRITING.
You want to write about it? Here's how you might do it and retain document quality. Note something like
(stroustrup could have chosen "++C" as well. See [Operator precedence]?.)
Then write to your hearts content in [Operator precedence]? about these niggling little points that are suddenly relevant _in proper context_.
No one is giving up, because we care about the quality of wikipedia. Alan D
first, I formally rescind my insult with apologies. On the other hand, I (and I'm sure a few other contrubuters here) resent the implication that anyone is trying to _censor_ content. I also happen to think that the notion that anyone would "censor" information like that for some bizarre reason is kind of funny. Now I think that I have a fairly good grasp on the C++ language. Lee here has written quite a bit in the Java language page and is quite a smart fellow himself, and it would seem that Zundark knows what he is talking about as well. Yet thus far your point has eluded all of us. This could be entirely the result of our own failings, but the burden lies on you to demonstrate why this point is valid, or else the basis of the wiki process requires us to edit the page.
I'm still at a loss as to why the information is important, especially if it has nothing to do with order of evaluation. Perhaps the best way to demonstrate this would be to produce the strousrup quote you refer to. I have read his book on C++ (well, a good chunk of it) including the part where he mentions the naming of C++. Thats where I got his quote. He didn't see fit to mention your point there either. And please don't produce a quote that has nothing to do with the naming of C++.
And lastly, I don't think anyone is acting emotionally about the quote itself, but as a result of our repeated lack of understanding as to why this is relevant information while at the same time someone else sees it as indispensible. This has degenerated into a flame war, and I don't think anyone wants that. I will have nothing more to say on the subject save a personal apology if you can demonstrate to the community's satisfaction why this is relevant.
Apology accepted; no big deal. I have attempted a rewrite I hope you'll find acceptable. Let me know if you feel there's still a problem.