Wikipedia: Masuria/Talk

Put this back up when it correct and not insulting to fellow Wikipedians

Masuria is the English name for Masuren or Masurenland (Polish Mazury) situated in the southern part of what was East Prussia, Germany. In the post-World War II redrawings of European borders, this territory was taken from Germany and given to Poland. The 'Masurenland' and 'Masurische Seenplatte' (Masurianland and Masurian Lakes Platteau), also called 'Land der Tausend Seen' , (Land of a thousand lakes) has a great many lakes. As in other parts of northern Germany from east of [[Hamburg on the Elbe? river to Mecklenburg and Pomerania at the Oder river to the Vistula river one continous strech of lakes make it in our times a beautiful vacation paradise. These lakes are the remnants of the ice-age? , when all north eastern Germany ,present Poland and further north-eastern Europe was covered with ice. By ten thousand BC this ice started to melt. Great geological changes have taken place and even in the last 500 years the maps showing the lagoons and Haffs (peninsulas) at the Baltic Sea have greatly altered appearances. The southern part of eastern Prussia , the Old Prussian lands Sudauen and Galindien (Sudovia and Galindia) had remaining wilderness areas longer than most of Europe. The deep forrests in these territories made it possible for [Ostpreussische Elche]? or moose , Aurochs , bears and many other mammals to survive. During the Baltic or Northern Crusades native Prussian population also had the chance to survive in the remaining wilderness areas against the onslaught of mighty Crusader armies from all over Europe and from Asia.

During Reformation? and Anti-Reformation? times people from lands south of Prussia , fromMasovia, came north and took refuge in Protestant Prussia. Later it became customary to call the Galindia land of Prussia 'Masurenland' or Masuria in honor of the many people from Masovia , who had come to Prussia .Communist nationalistic Poland laid claims to Masuria at Treaty of Versailles , pointing out to the many Slavic sounding names of the Prussian Masurians. The League of Nations held elections in 1920 as to whether the people in Prussia wanted to remain with Germany or join the state of Poland. In West Prussia over 92% voted to remain with Germany , in East Prussia 98% voted to remain with Germany.

Poland never gave up trying to conquer this land, as they had conquered the land of Masovia years ago.

Prussian Galindia was originally much larger and reached further south and east , but since Masovians and Poles conquered much of this land the borders between Prussia, Lithuania and Poland were set in 1422 by the Treaty of Melno Lake .These borders between Prussia, Lithuania and Poland were unchanged until the military take-over by Stalin in and after 1945.

Polish sources love to claim all of East and West Prussia , Pomerania, Silesia , Eastern Brandenburg as regained original Polish land . The northern part of East Prussia, today Oblast Kaliningrad , taken by Soviet Union is at least spared that aspect of twisted history. Vast Polish effords have shown great success with Westerners, where even learned history graduates can not tell the difference between Masovia and Masuria.

Masuria, or the Masurian Lakes Platteau is in the area of the cities of Angerburg, Loetzen, Nikolaiken,Allenstein today Olstyn?, Angerburg, Rastenburg, Roessel, Rhein, Sensburg, Ortelsburg, Johannisburg, Treuburg.

A map of 1660 Prussia showing above cities and to the south of it Masovia : [[1]]

same map larger [[2]] (The many lakes are shown in brownish color on this map, Spirding See is the largest ).

A current website for travels to Masuria [[3]] H. Jonat

What is wrong with the entry? It looks pretty good to me. sodium

: hi Sodium -- you have to go over a lot of wiki history to get this one...suffice it to say that a certain person finds it impossible to write an NPOV, historically correct article if it has to do with any part of the world that might once have been part of Prussia.

Are there Moose in Europe? Or are they Elk? Honestly am ot sure, but have had this conversation in pubs in Germany and seem to remember that Moose are North American, and Europe has elk that are moose-sized, but don't have horns like Bullwinkle...???JHK

Apparently they are moose, although sometimes called elk in Europe. Antlers and all. I am more concerned with the poor Prussia being assaulted all those years by the evil Poles in the article. And the claim that the Polish-Prussian border never changed between 1422 and 1945. Stretches belief. --rmhermen

I took out "learned history graduates" and replaced it with "many". JHK you constantly write snide remarks to other wikipedians about my entries on subjects you don't know about . I am assuming that you are referring to this quote . If the truth of the article is too strong for your taste , then look at the Masovia entry, where "yes it was conquered by Polish dukes", was immediately proudly verified. If someone else objects to stating it like it is, let them "water it down".

Do me a favor , get enough sleep and do look at a map when I ask you to repeatedly. It does help and then you will not put Luebeck in the communist GDR again , you won't mix up Masuria and Masovia ( which a lot of other people do too) and you can stop sniping at me. We'll both appreciate it ( and thereby I can fully appreciate your fine contributions).

As with the Aurochs , all you had to do , is what Paul Dry did, state the site that gives the exact location and for the time being clarify the question I posted several times, as to whether it was Masovia or Masuria. And do not try to tell me again, that Masovia in German is Masuria. Konrad von Masovien and Cymburga von Masovien ,mother of Habsburg emperorFrederick III, are well known in German history (or at least used to be). H. Jonat

The Ostpreussische Elch , moose like has Schaufeln (shovels see Trakehner horses, whose brand is the Ostpreussische Elchschaufel (East Prussia elk/moose shovel)These Elch do go for a swim in the Baltic Sea H. Jonat