Now that I added the bit about "methinks" as an example of dative case in English, I find myself doubting whether I should have done so. Is it not an example of excessive anglocentrism? While this Wikipedia's primary language is English, it may seem a bit presumptuous to illustrate perfectly universal categories and topics (such as "dative case") with examples from the English language. Or not? I'm not sure. --
AV
"This is the English Wikipedia". While there are probably many multilingual users, English is the only language we should assume that the readers possess. Examples in English *are* most universal, given that assumption.
I'm also of the opinion that provoking people to think more about the structures and idiosyncracies of their native language is a good thing. -- Paul Drye
I think the English "methinks" is a bit of a historical oddity, and while it is useful as a historical tidbit, it is a confusing example. I think giving an example from Latin, or some other language with cases (Russian, Finish, etc. -- take your pick) would be more useful. Especially since the Old English that "methinks" derives from is probably different from the modern word "methinks". -- SJK
The main page says that the Dative has dissapeared from English grammar. This I'd agree with only in the sense that the dative has no inflection distinct from the
accusative case. It occurs in such sentences as 'He gave me it' and 'He built me a snowman'. I boths examples 'me' is dative. --
Karl Palmen
Who says "he gave me it"? That sounds (to my ears, anyway) really colloquial and ungrammatical. Or is it just me?
Colloquial, yes. Awkward, yes. But it is indeed grammatical. You
would say, for example, "he gave me that", which is an identical construction with a different pronoun. --LDC
Everyone says "he gave me it" or at any rate "he gave me one", "he gave me that", "he gave me more than I asked for", "she wrote me a letter", etc. Why do you think that it is it awkward? I use sentences like "My wife bought me a doughnut" all the time (dative "me"). Are you saying that you would use "My wife bought a doughnut for me" in preference ? Surely not. -- Derek Ross
- Of course not, and you missed my point. I replaced "He gave me it" with "He gave me that" in the example in the article, because "He gave me it" is very awkward and colloquial. The other uses of the dative "me" that you specified are not colloquial or awkward, and are perfectly legitimate in formal speech.
Yes, that's probably the best thing to do. I have no idea why people don't generally say "he gave me it"
when it is parallel to the other examples. Ask Steven Pinker or George Lakoff. --LDC
- I think you'll find that the answer to any question that begins with "I wonder why English...." is "Because English is a mess." :) -- Paul Drye
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